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	<title>Comments on: Not in my place you&#8217;re not! - A restauranteur takes a stand</title>
	<link>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/</link>
	<description>A Wine Blog Dedicated To Terrior</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: vivaitalia</title>
		<link>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-59338</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 02:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-59338</guid>
					<description>I'm the kitchen manager at a local italian/americana  family restaurant and get very frustrated with customers seemingly wanting to change everything they order into a different dish. Our menu items were developed with specific flavor combinations in mind and all this altering is taking away the personality and character of individual restaurants. But my time working at a few chain restaurants taught me that most consumers are looking for and expect the "have it your way" approach. If I get to start my own eatery, I think I would do just what she did, but I think that wouldn't go over well with most people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the kitchen manager at a local italian/americana  family restaurant and get very frustrated with customers seemingly wanting to change everything they order into a different dish. Our menu items were developed with specific flavor combinations in mind and all this altering is taking away the personality and character of individual restaurants. But my time working at a few chain restaurants taught me that most consumers are looking for and expect the &#8220;have it your way&#8221; approach. If I get to start my own eatery, I think I would do just what she did, but I think that wouldn&#8217;t go over well with most people.
</p>
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		<title>by: vinnyd</title>
		<link>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-2152</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-2152</guid>
					<description>interesting story....
I've been in the restaurant and bar business and the bottom line is pleasing the customer. I appreciate Cinzia's attempt to serve the dish appropriately, but 9 out of 10 times she would lose the business.  As a barman I would never EVER shake a bombay sapphire martini - but if a customer insisted on having little ice particles floating around in their gin - it's their money.  Suggestions that borderline snobbery have no place in the food and beverage business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>interesting story&#8230;.<br />
I&#8217;ve been in the restaurant and bar business and the bottom line is pleasing the customer. I appreciate Cinzia&#8217;s attempt to serve the dish appropriately, but 9 out of 10 times she would lose the business.  As a barman I would never EVER shake a bombay sapphire martini - but if a customer insisted on having little ice particles floating around in their gin - it&#8217;s their money.  Suggestions that borderline snobbery have no place in the food and beverage business.
</p>
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		<title>by: John Blue Label</title>
		<link>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-2119</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-2119</guid>
					<description>Cinzia was right: "If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything" (Steve Bartkowski). She is an artist, with food. To put cheese on this dish would have destroyed it's subtlety and artistry. Because she stood her ground, when she knew she was correct, her patron enjoyed the dish more completely, as it was supposed to be. I love the 3 choices: 1: as is, 2, substitute, 3: take a hike. Classic!!!
JW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cinzia was right: &#8220;If you don&#8217;t stand for something, you will fall for anything&#8221; (Steve Bartkowski). She is an artist, with food. To put cheese on this dish would have destroyed it&#8217;s subtlety and artistry. Because she stood her ground, when she knew she was correct, her patron enjoyed the dish more completely, as it was supposed to be. I love the 3 choices: 1: as is, 2, substitute, 3: take a hike. Classic!!!<br />
JW
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		<title>by: TagWorld Brian</title>
		<link>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1946</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1946</guid>
					<description>Well, I guess people have to agree to disagree on this one.  If a proprietor challenged me like this and pushed me to the wall, I wouldn't interpret it kindly.  But c'est la vie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I guess people have to agree to disagree on this one.  If a proprietor challenged me like this and pushed me to the wall, I wouldn&#8217;t interpret it kindly.  But c&#8217;est la vie.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tom C</title>
		<link>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1936</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1936</guid>
					<description>To all-

I want to stress the fact that Cinzia is a very charming person, she just believes that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things when it comes to Italian cuisine, and she first tries to repectfully educate - like I said in the body of the text, she explained that the dish was simply too delicate to support grated cheese, and assured the diner that she would enjoy it more without the cheese, which she indeed did, but again, of the three options she gives in these situations (Eat the dish as is; Change dishes, no charge; Go someplace else) putting cheese on that dish is absolutely not one of them, EVER...In an earlier, identical incident, she she offered to allow the person to eat the ENTIRE dish of Spaghetti frutti di mare, and if he didn't agree that the dish was better without the cheese, she would bring the patron another pasta dish at no charge, but she still under no circumstances would allow this person to put cheese on that dish. He too was convinced after trying the dish "senza grana". There's a reason why you don't put Cheez Wiz on caviar...

TOM CIOCCO



TOM CIOCCO</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To all-</p>
<p>I want to stress the fact that Cinzia is a very charming person, she just believes that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things when it comes to Italian cuisine, and she first tries to repectfully educate - like I said in the body of the text, she explained that the dish was simply too delicate to support grated cheese, and assured the diner that she would enjoy it more without the cheese, which she indeed did, but again, of the three options she gives in these situations (Eat the dish as is; Change dishes, no charge; Go someplace else) putting cheese on that dish is absolutely not one of them, EVER&#8230;In an earlier, identical incident, she she offered to allow the person to eat the ENTIRE dish of Spaghetti frutti di mare, and if he didn&#8217;t agree that the dish was better without the cheese, she would bring the patron another pasta dish at no charge, but she still under no circumstances would allow this person to put cheese on that dish. He too was convinced after trying the dish &#8220;senza grana&#8221;. There&#8217;s a reason why you don&#8217;t put Cheez Wiz on caviar&#8230;</p>
<p>TOM CIOCCO</p>
<p>TOM CIOCCO
</p>
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		<title>by: TommyBoBo of WI</title>
		<link>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1903</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 01:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1903</guid>
					<description>No one wants to be made a fool of, embarassed or made to feel ignorant. Maybe a polite explaination of why cheese isn't offered, but then get the DAMN cheese, with a smile, if the customer insists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one wants to be made a fool of, embarassed or made to feel ignorant. Maybe a polite explaination of why cheese isn&#8217;t offered, but then get the DAMN cheese, with a smile, if the customer insists.
</p>
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		<title>by: WhiteH2OWoman</title>
		<link>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1902</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 01:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1902</guid>
					<description>I've gotta vote with Mama.  As a business owner, I already see far too many egotistical customers who think they know the copywriting business, and I get sick and tired of having to give them The Speech about how do they know it won't sell unless they TRY it?

Yeah, if I were the customer, I'd gulp and think about storming out...but then I think I'd try to TRUST the owner and TRY that dish.

It all boils down to whether the customers is willing to trust the owner/creator...and whether the owner is willing to put future business and goodwill on the line.  

And for me, it's also that life's just too darned short to put up with unappreciative a-holes.  

Well, you did ask, Tom!  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve gotta vote with Mama.  As a business owner, I already see far too many egotistical customers who think they know the copywriting business, and I get sick and tired of having to give them The Speech about how do they know it won&#8217;t sell unless they TRY it?</p>
<p>Yeah, if I were the customer, I&#8217;d gulp and think about storming out&#8230;but then I think I&#8217;d try to TRUST the owner and TRY that dish.</p>
<p>It all boils down to whether the customers is willing to trust the owner/creator&#8230;and whether the owner is willing to put future business and goodwill on the line.  </p>
<p>And for me, it&#8217;s also that life&#8217;s just too darned short to put up with unappreciative a-holes.  </p>
<p>Well, you did ask, Tom!  <img src='http://terroir.winelibrary.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />
</p>
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		<title>by: TagWorld Brian</title>
		<link>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1901</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1901</guid>
					<description>Tom,

We actually don't really disagree.  The only thing I would resent, if I were the customer in this situation, is the lack of advance notice.  (And I'm sure Cinzia resented the fact that she had to deal with an insistent guest, in a polite but confrontational way that probably made her uncomfortable at some level.)

Sometimes I'm in the mood for sushi, omakase style.  I'm looking forward to being educated, and I'm willing to submit to the experience without protest.  Other times, I want the control.  Maybe I'm in the mood for a bastardized, Americanized, tempura-ized California roll variation that has nothing to do with real sushi.  All I'm saying is, give me the choice beforehand.  Let me know what I'm getting into.  That way, no misunderstandings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,</p>
<p>We actually don&#8217;t really disagree.  The only thing I would resent, if I were the customer in this situation, is the lack of advance notice.  (And I&#8217;m sure Cinzia resented the fact that she had to deal with an insistent guest, in a polite but confrontational way that probably made her uncomfortable at some level.)</p>
<p>Sometimes I&#8217;m in the mood for sushi, omakase style.  I&#8217;m looking forward to being educated, and I&#8217;m willing to submit to the experience without protest.  Other times, I want the control.  Maybe I&#8217;m in the mood for a bastardized, Americanized, tempura-ized California roll variation that has nothing to do with real sushi.  All I&#8217;m saying is, give me the choice beforehand.  Let me know what I&#8217;m getting into.  That way, no misunderstandings.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tom C</title>
		<link>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1897</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 22:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1897</guid>
					<description>Brian-

I think that we agree completely on what's at work here, but disagree on the validity of her approach. I think it's great, and wish more had her passion...it occurred to me earlier that part of the intractability that she demonstrates is rooted in the ABYSMAL state of "Italian" food, even in NYC, and feeling like she's being rebuffed or snubbed - that she is taking the extra time to cook authentic Italian fare and educate people about it (which she is no way obligated to do) and the person is essentially saying "Yeah, yeah, I don't really care, just give me what I want right now."

There is actually a movement in Italy to officially sanction with an Italian government seal restaurants that are deemed by a judging body to be AUTHENTIC Italian food. There is a very common complaint by Italian expats and visitors alike (who usually are fairly adventurous eaters when it comes to other's cuisines) who want to have a short trip back home via food, go to what they think to be a REAL Italian restaurant, and get a shocking surprise at the disconnect between what is listed on the menu and what is eventually brought to their table - like the time a Roman friend of mine ordered Spaghetti alla Carbonara and it arrived  covered in MUSHROOMS! I literally thought he was going to cry...

..look at the "mirror image" of this whole story...what if you went to Mexico and ordered a hamburger only to find out that they served it wrapped in a tortilla and the meat was seasoned with Mexican oregano, tomatillo, and ancho chile powder - very tasty, maybe, but at the end of the day, it's just not a hamburger. 

TOM CIOCCO</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian-</p>
<p>I think that we agree completely on what&#8217;s at work here, but disagree on the validity of her approach. I think it&#8217;s great, and wish more had her passion&#8230;it occurred to me earlier that part of the intractability that she demonstrates is rooted in the ABYSMAL state of &#8220;Italian&#8221; food, even in NYC, and feeling like she&#8217;s being rebuffed or snubbed - that she is taking the extra time to cook authentic Italian fare and educate people about it (which she is no way obligated to do) and the person is essentially saying &#8220;Yeah, yeah, I don&#8217;t really care, just give me what I want right now.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is actually a movement in Italy to officially sanction with an Italian government seal restaurants that are deemed by a judging body to be AUTHENTIC Italian food. There is a very common complaint by Italian expats and visitors alike (who usually are fairly adventurous eaters when it comes to other&#8217;s cuisines) who want to have a short trip back home via food, go to what they think to be a REAL Italian restaurant, and get a shocking surprise at the disconnect between what is listed on the menu and what is eventually brought to their table - like the time a Roman friend of mine ordered Spaghetti alla Carbonara and it arrived  covered in MUSHROOMS! I literally thought he was going to cry&#8230;</p>
<p>..look at the &#8220;mirror image&#8221; of this whole story&#8230;what if you went to Mexico and ordered a hamburger only to find out that they served it wrapped in a tortilla and the meat was seasoned with Mexican oregano, tomatillo, and ancho chile powder - very tasty, maybe, but at the end of the day, it&#8217;s just not a hamburger. </p>
<p>TOM CIOCCO
</p>
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		<title>by: TagWorld Brian</title>
		<link>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1895</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://terroir.winelibrary.com/2007/03/19/not-in-my-place-youre-not-a-restauranteur-takes-a-stand/#comment-1895</guid>
					<description>Tom, thanks for your reply.  Just to be clear, I understand the proud sensibilities informing Cinzia's conduct.  There are definitely things more important in life than money, and I applaud people who work hard to reconcile moral and ethical goals with commerce.  

But... I believe the customer in your scenario did not make an unreasonable demand, and it shouldn't have been treated as such.  The menu made an offer to sell frutti di mare.  It didn't specify that no substitutions or condiments will be permitted.  The customer accepted the offer, and given that 99% of restaurants probably would bring out cheese upon request, she was reasonable in expecting that this restaurant would also do so.  (It's not like putting your shoes on the table at a friend's private residence.  Everybody knows, or reasonably should know, that normal rules forbid this.)  

Cinzia should have accommodated the customer.  The next night, if she still felt sufficiently aggrieved over the situation, she could have reworded her menu to give overt advance notice of her "no condiments" policy.

My original point was and remains that, if Cinzia wants to treat a paying customer this way, and cleverly narrow her clientele to only those people with some sort of need to be "in the know," to be part of an elite club... then fine. If she can afford it, more power to her.  Like I said, she is free to adopt any attitude and bear the market consequences of it.    

And on the other side, those who choose not to be insulted for ultimately insisting on their own preferences, who don't believe they should be viewed as a prostitute's "John" for wanting what they want, can and should make the choice to dine elsewhere.  This is why I applaud all the sites that post user reviews of restaurants.  Research first, then commit your money and time.  

Cinzia may have acted this way because she feels she is making a heart and soul offering with a certain general love for her customers.  But separating issues of money and commerce, this love is a gift.  It should be freely given, for the joy of giving, without expectation of receiving any desired result, or anything in return.  That's just my $0.02.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, thanks for your reply.  Just to be clear, I understand the proud sensibilities informing Cinzia&#8217;s conduct.  There are definitely things more important in life than money, and I applaud people who work hard to reconcile moral and ethical goals with commerce.  </p>
<p>But&#8230; I believe the customer in your scenario did not make an unreasonable demand, and it shouldn&#8217;t have been treated as such.  The menu made an offer to sell frutti di mare.  It didn&#8217;t specify that no substitutions or condiments will be permitted.  The customer accepted the offer, and given that 99% of restaurants probably would bring out cheese upon request, she was reasonable in expecting that this restaurant would also do so.  (It&#8217;s not like putting your shoes on the table at a friend&#8217;s private residence.  Everybody knows, or reasonably should know, that normal rules forbid this.)  </p>
<p>Cinzia should have accommodated the customer.  The next night, if she still felt sufficiently aggrieved over the situation, she could have reworded her menu to give overt advance notice of her &#8220;no condiments&#8221; policy.</p>
<p>My original point was and remains that, if Cinzia wants to treat a paying customer this way, and cleverly narrow her clientele to only those people with some sort of need to be &#8220;in the know,&#8221; to be part of an elite club&#8230; then fine. If she can afford it, more power to her.  Like I said, she is free to adopt any attitude and bear the market consequences of it.    </p>
<p>And on the other side, those who choose not to be insulted for ultimately insisting on their own preferences, who don&#8217;t believe they should be viewed as a prostitute&#8217;s &#8220;John&#8221; for wanting what they want, can and should make the choice to dine elsewhere.  This is why I applaud all the sites that post user reviews of restaurants.  Research first, then commit your money and time.  </p>
<p>Cinzia may have acted this way because she feels she is making a heart and soul offering with a certain general love for her customers.  But separating issues of money and commerce, this love is a gift.  It should be freely given, for the joy of giving, without expectation of receiving any desired result, or anything in return.  That&#8217;s just my $0.02.
</p>
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